Curse

Vittorio · Apr 18, 2005, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Are there any plans to add PURPOSE to pvp? When it comes down to it, all you really gain out of it is exp and by level 20, that's completely irrelevant. I LOVE competition. However, I also love having some greater goal to work towards at the same time. I think that there should at least be some sort of gold reward for winning battles, if not a chance to win items.

Darneith · Apr 18, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

You do gain items for victory in the HoH. In the GvG battles you gain rank on the ladders. The only place you do not gain any larger goal is the random arenas. And they're not really for competitive play so much as they are a way to get your feet wet with PvP and test out a build in a limited environment.

Nash · Apr 18, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

The purpose is to own other people. If that's not why you're playing PvP, then you should really considering going to PvE.

Kaedar · Apr 18, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

The purpose is to own other people.

That's the most honest and straightforwarded definition of PVP ever.

torry · Apr 18, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

MAPS
I would like to see some more possible scenarios on PvP. It becomes rather boring to face that brick wall and see there are 6 other teams to kill over and over again. See the HoH, and die sooner than later.

More maps specially, with more tactical possibilities? Anybody played Myth some years ago? Great fun in PvP and lots of fun maps and versatility. Something like that?

PVP/PVE
I'd like to see some more coop also, like holding off a steadily increasing stream of mobs, and get your results logged for others to see? Or getting through to a new level /map to feel the achievement?

PVP
Call me stupid, but all we found was HoH and Arenas in different flavours. I saw a list of 7-8 places to PvP at one board, are there more different types of play there?

Oadn_Bsff · Apr 18, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

When you're the best guild, that means you're the best in the world. That's something worth fighting for, that kind of bragging right.

ratatass · Apr 18, 2005, 08:01 PM // 20:01

I tend to agree somewhat with the Thread starter and with Nash.

OWNING
Yes, it is about owning people. But there are limited slots in the HoH and as I have said before, the regular player logging in for some action is gonna feel just like the Thread Starter says - where is the purpose ? Why do I keep playiing the smae maps over and over again in pick up groups and if I get to the Hall of Heros I am just gonna get owned by Die Hard players like Nash that has contemplated and made strategies for months. Is that purpose ?

THE OVERALL GOAL:
The goal is to reach the Hall of Heros and hold it for as long as you can, but then again that is going to be true for lets say 2% of the players ? How about the other 98% grinding the same maps over and over again to reach their purpose 0.001% of the time - to hold the Hall.

I played in pick up groups the whole Beta - and reached the Hall with a few of them. The only group that really kicked some butt was Nashes. I was lucky to have a go with him and it was fun, but that run was 1 out of 100 and I messed up and probably got us killed (sorry) by dying. runs like that makes it worthwhile to play PvP, but not many are going to be fortunate and be picked up by an all purpose group.

BALANCE
I also would like to question the balance as it is now:Regular Monks are now Tanks and Warrior Tanks now function as Monks.

How ?
Well all fire now is focused on the Monks - the life line of the group, I found myself bringing more and more defense throught the event. Groups also , especially pick up groups could not be successful without 3 monks.

As a Warrior, I had to kill targets as quick as possible to ease their burden, I also ran around with Restore Life constantly ressing players. I felt my purpose as the Warrior was not to be a tank , but an insane frenzy on the killing field and reviving party members from death - yes felt like a monk at times.

But that was not the point.

Finding the purpose in PvP is hard if you are in pick up groups - it is a repetetive grind for the masses and lots of fun for the few.

Vittorio · Apr 18, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Try to realize that PvP gets boring after awhile if you're gaining nothing for it in the long run. All humility aside, I'll flat out say that my skills are far above that of a normal player. I'm a gamer, it's what I do. And sitting around killing people with NO reward gets tedious, especially with the poor map selection as mentioned. UO at least had the insurance system...you'd gain gold and be able to loot whatever the person had everytime you killed them. Guild Wars has nothing like that. Before someone responds to this with an all-too-predictable remark such as the "pvp for the sake of owning!" comment I anticipated, realize that I'm not saying this game is UO or should be like UO. I'm saying that because there was at least SOME reward, little as it may be, it kept you going. I see no reason why there can't be rewards for random groups that reach astounding numbers of wins, or at least small gold rewards per victory. As far as the Hall of Heroes goes, it's practically impossible to get anywhere there without a group of solid players that you know. Something needs to change.

On a side note, I enjoy 4 vs 4 battles, but the fort has got to be one of the ugliest maps ever conceived. Bring back the map that was used in the original world preview event. And yes, having more maps to do battle on would do wonders to alleviate some of the tedium.

Peets · Apr 18, 2005, 08:44 PM // 20:44

some kind of ranking like guild ranking would be very cool

Vittorio · Apr 18, 2005, 08:46 PM // 20:46

It would be, but I'm talking material gain. I couldn't care less what position my guild was in.

Heindrich · Apr 18, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Bottom line is this game is weak. I got bored with the game by the end of this last BWE. Race and professions are too limited. Game does not have any purpose that I could see. Once you get your toon to 20 theres nothing left to do. The pvp was fun at first but got old really quick. There was simply no point in fighting; you don't gain or lose anything. And there isn't much to gain overall.
Personally I think the game needs a lot of work, which probably won't happen.
I can't imagine people sticking with this game that long. I left Shadowbane thinking this would be and improvement but I was mistaken. I've been playing shadowbane for a couple years and still can find more to do in there than here.
So good luck keeping entertained to all those who actually purchase GW.

Phoenix Avenger · Apr 18, 2005, 09:03 PM // 21:03

I have to agree with the majority of the people here. Something NEEDS to be added to PvP to make it worth playing over and over again as this seems to be the main selling point of the game.

Chaos Engine · Apr 18, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

BALANCE
I also would like to question the balance as it is now:Regular Monks are now Tanks and Warrior Tanks now function as Monks.

I haven't participated in any "proper" form of PvP in GW yet, but that is the case in most games that feature character classes. I personally despise healers (not the people playing them, but as a "gameplay element") as they completely change the way combat works.
All your mistakes and little victories can be overridden by a healer's actions. As such, they "cheapen" the act of fighting.

On the other hand, even if GW didn't have healers, people would be going after artillery (elementalists) or the next class with the lowest armor & high damage. That warrior with the highest armor in the game and a melee weapon in his hands? He is not your enemy's weak spot.

In most games I've played, people don't even attack melee classes. A crowd control spell (mez, root, snare etc) is usually what it takes to get rid of a close range fighter.

I have yet to see a game that fixes this problem, and I am not holding my breath.

Dreamsmith · Apr 18, 2005, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Did any of you play StarCraft? What did you gain by winning other than winning?

Vittorio · Apr 18, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

This isn't Starcraft, this is an online RPG based around creating a character, developing him, and competing with other players. If this were purely about pitting yourself vs other players like Starcraft, everything would be available to everyone immediately, no work involved. They're two completely different games. Furthermore, regardless of what similarities these two games may have, the fact remains that a lot of people seem to be getting bored fast and feel that something is lacking here. I know this game has extreme potential; during the world preview events, I was completely glued to it. However, it needs more replay value.

Heindrich · Apr 18, 2005, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

Did any of you play StarCraft? What did you gain by winning other than winning?

Key word here is "Did". Although StarCraft was a great game, Time has moved on and new and better games have come along. People who "Did" play starcraft "Do" not anymore.... at least not to the extent they used to.

Winning for the sake of winning only gets you so far. I mean think about it. Do you go to school just to get a degree? just so you can feel good about getting that degree? NO, you go to get the job you want or just to make a lot of money. This is a materialistic world and the virtual world we choose to play in should work around the same wants we have in real life.

Starflower · Apr 19, 2005, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heindrich

Winning for the sake of winning only gets you so far. I mean think about it. Do you go to school just to get a degree? just so you can feel good about getting that degree? NO, you go to get the job you want or just to make a lot of money. This is a materialistic world and the virtual world we choose to play in should work around the same wants we have in real life.

Actually, I went to school to gather knowledge and become a more flexible, well-rounded person who could handle life's challenges better--not to make more money (frankly, a basic college degree doesn't exactly hold out the promise of phat lewt right now).* In a similar way, I would like to think that the reward of PvP--if done correctly and entered in the right spirit--would be the satisfaction of knowing that I had learned how to respond to a team's tactics and develop my own skills to be a competent player.

Another problem with your college analogy is that getting a degree isn't meant to be enjoyable, per se. GW is a game. Did you never play Magic or other card games with your friends? Was it only fun if you were playing for material rewards? Maybe the answer is yes--I do know people who only enjoy games if they stand to win or lose money. But I played Magic with my friends simply for the pleasure of interacting with them and the enjoyment of seeing if I had the skills to make and deploy a winning deck.

All that said, I haven't played GW yet so I really don't know how I'll respond to it. It does seem that without some kind of extra rewards, many people won't be into long-term play. That seems a limiting idea of "fun" to me, though.

Starflower
*If I were going to be really honest, I would say I went to college because I loved learning things and wanted to learn more...but I fear this would mark me as UberNerd and ruin my credibility outright.

Redd Sciron · Apr 19, 2005, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Would some independently made ladders and tournys help ease the boredom?

i make ladders leagues for games as a hobby of sorts (yeah bored programmer)

would stuff like that help? or just add to the boredom?

Lifire · Apr 19, 2005, 01:03 AM // 01:03

In DAOC, realm points are awarded for PVPing. With those RPs you can buy special skills and abilities that make your character better, but since this game isn't about time put in, I doubt this system would work well because you would have people that play 24/7 and own anyone else because they have special abilities.

As for needing motive, I don't not atm. I have fun just doing in an formulating a plan to take out the enemy. The game is action/rpg, not just rpg. It's not a roll of dice, you can dodge attacks and hide behind the environment, so in that regard, the game doesn't need pvp motive.

I play HL2 deathmatch and kill people just to kill people. Same thing for GW atm. I had a blast pvping in random groups versus random groups. The difference is it's 3rd person and you don't shoot guns

Devil's Dictionary · Apr 19, 2005, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heindrich

Key word here is "Did". Although StarCraft was a great game, Time has moved on and new and better games have come along. People who "Did" play starcraft "Do" not anymore.... at least not to the extent they used to.

Alright, alright. I'll rephrase Dreamsmith's sentence.
"Did any of you play Wahammer 40,000: Dawn of War/Act of War/Rome: Total War/Counter Strike/Half Life Deathmatch/Half Life 2 Deathmatch/Enemy Territory/Wolfenstein/Far Cry/Rainbow Six multiplayer/Tribes Vengeance? What did you gain by winning other than winning?"
Better?

Seriously, I play for fun. If you play for any kind of reward, then I am sorry for you.